Post 4

Wow!

A lot has happened and I will have a lot of backfilling to do in this post and others to come.

I have the frame and engine assembled and the engine is on the bike. I decided to try to get the bike together as much as possible before hanging the engine. I am awaiting hand controls, as mine were disassembled and some important internal parts were lost by my helper. I decided to get controls for a CB175, which are more available, but look to have everything I need. I am hoping the throttle control works the same way or I may have to Frankenstein it together, though I think I can actually use the start switch and body of the CB160 on the right and the light and horn switch from the CB175 on the left. I have not drilled my new set of handlebars yet, awaiting the -very slow to come- controls. Well they are all of 350 miles from here, so no wonder it is taking so long!



Without engine. Wanted to see how it was looking.

By the way, yes I am doing this in the house. This is my old house that is vacant and an old rug and no fluids have been installed as of yet. That is to come, but outside or in the garage!!

Issues:

Rear wheel
I had a little trouble figuring out where the strut that stabilizes/fixes the position of the rear wheel hub attaches (driver's side). I hooked up onto one that looked right from the pictures, but then the kickstand hit it. It took a while to figure out that it is up under that area and it installs into the bracket, in-between the two leafs. If you don't install it correct like I did, you will compress it and then you will have a lot of trouble spreading the leafs to reinstall it correctly. I will try to post a picture.

I still have to adjust the rear brakes. I need to install the chain first. I also had to guess on a spring size for the  brake light switch at the rear brake pedal arm. Also, the arm seems high and too far in, so I am thinking it is bent from my son trying to remove it for sandblast and paint. I will try to find online pictures to confirm.

Gas tank
I had to cut the reserve fuel line nipple and eventually cut it all the way off and just installed a new brass fitting with nipple. I will get pictures. Though I got it installed perfectly, it still was not air tight, so I installed with two part epoxy and it worked very nicely.

Wiring
Exactly how the wiring was routed is also a mystery, but most everything fell into place by looking for frame attach points and hooking up connections. I did see that the starter cable has an attach point by the drive sprocket and also comes up from between the engine and starter. I will reroute that next. I also need to redo the wiring bundle coming from mid engine so it routes better.

Coil/Spark Plug Wires/Muffler
The coil I got came without attachment or hookup hardware, so I made it myself. Picture to follow. I would recommend against using JC Whitney as a part source. Every last thing I bought through them had issues to overcome, from the coil without hookup hardware or instructions, to twin spark plug cable sets that came with one wire (customer service at first agreed it should be two and then never shipped although they said they would, and now two weeks later they now say it is correct as shipped, even though the picture shows two as does all of the description and title). Finally the muffler, which was supposed to come with sleeves to hook it to stock downpipes, but which does not come with correct sizes, even though I was assured they would.  I ended up going to Autozone and getting a converter, which they had in stock. I used one of the supplied sleeves with this and it installed pretty tight. I will need to confirm it stays tight with no blowby after running for a week or two. I will take pictures of this too.


Coil installation with padded clamps. Installs onto the coil studs and tightly between the frame rails.

Headlight/Speedometer/Cables
I had to epoxy repair my headlight, as one attachment tab had broken free. I also had a bunch of hardware to buy to replace that which was lost, including the tension spring for adjustment. I also used tie rod grommets for the wire and cable grommets needed on headlight housing penetrations. I used an exacto knife to cut a relief down the middle and it worked pretty well. I have since found that Ace Hardware sells grommets the size I need, so I would suggest you do that as it saves money!! My speedometer looks pretty rough behind the glass, but I am going to try to use it since the mileage is correct and low (3,000). If I have issues, then I can buy a replacement. Also I mentioned I bought a replacement speedo cable that was 10 inches longer that normal, so I had a bit of rerouting to do, but it ended up making the installation cleaner. I will post pictures of the routing and the look. I also had similar issues with other cables and came up with new routing. The important thing it that the function is not hindered, and I will have a little playing with it yet to do before I am done adjustments.

Engine
The manual says that you do not have to use ring compressors because the lead in to the cylinders are generous, but four broken rings later and I call bull-poop on that. I had already broken one ring on installation, so I had five leftover, so all is well. I made ring compressors out of thick plastic packaging for sanding discs and then used plastic wire ties to do the actual compressing - three of them, one over each ring, but on the outside of the thick plastic sleeve. It worked like a charm! Of course you can also buy the appropriate size compressor. Also, pay attention to the direction of the large fillet cut in the top of the piston, which is for the intake valve and faces the back of the engine. Other that this, it was pretty straight forward. Also, compress the chain tensioner and tighten before installing head. BTW, my camshaft did not have an "O" inscribed for the TDC mark, but there is a drill hole in its place, which was nice because I put a long dowel through it and it helped me see where absolute centered was, and then I removed before installing the top of the engine. This may be a low model number eccentricity.

Carbs
The carbs install with a tapered spacer, that also serves as a heat reducer. I did not see guidance on whether the thicker end goes inboard or outboard, but it seems to work better to make it inside so that the carbs point back and out from center. I will try to confirm though. I still need to figure out how to hook up the two vacuum ports on aft of engine - one at top, large and one in-between the carbs which is smaller. The larger one looks to go back to frame swing arm or as a drain back there. I assume the small one hooks to carbs somehow.  Once I have that figure out, I will post pictures.

Update: The large port is a breather port and the hose routes back to act as a drain for when oil is exhausted out the port (found it in workshop manual you can access here). I see on some pictures that the lower one Y's in with the upper one, but then I see in others that it T's into bowl drains. I am going to assume it is a non issue since it is not talked about in the Haynes, Chiltons or Shop manual or elsewhere. Oh, I also found a place that says the carbs need to toe out (click link here).

Post 3

In the past days we have gotten more of the bike primed and ready for paint. Today I worked on the gas tank. If you remember it looked like swiss cheese. My son did body work on it and just bondoed over holes since I was doing a POR15 tank liner. Well today I did the POR 15 prep and liner installation.

I recommend that after you do the corrosive rust removal and metal prep scours that you take it into a dark room with a flashing light and shine it in the tank and look for pin holes and address those. Masking tape works if they are small and you do it before the liner. I had a dog of a time learning this in hindsight! Still, it is all done! I sped up drying with a blower on low, so I could body work the outside (light sand) to ready for another coat of primer. After 96 hours I will do a fluid leak check.

At any rate, it is looking pretty good and I can always buy a different one later.

Next I finished cleaning the engine and other aluminum exterior parts. I used the corrosive fluid from the gas tank treatment for the small parts which turned the aluminum a dark grey and a brass brush cleaned it right up.  A lot easier that just using the aluminum wheel cleaner. And oh by the way, avoid the paste kind. It creates a real mess and a ride in the dishwasher, as some suggest, is just more work. I'd do the whole thing in that corrosive treatment, whatever it is. I cleaned all corrosion and oil in a hurry, and polished up pretty good, pretty quick with a brass brush.

One thing I worked on cleaning was the fuel petcock. One of my passages was completely clogged and the main one was partially.

I tried using a pick to clean it out, but only helped out the main path. I then got a drill bit just smaller than the size of the holes and carefully drilled into the holes, looking in the opposite side for sign the drill bit was there. This worked marvelously. My clogged line was clogged about an inch in the side direction and 1/2 inch in the other. I could tell when I was to the end of the clog and was at metal. Go slow!!!

I did all other directions I could and got the main one blowing through freely!

Today I also worked on this jigsaw puzzle my son left me in buckets of parts of completely stripped down engine stuff. He took pictures but has not been able to get them to me due to phone issues, but with the manual, picks of others online (Gords Garage in particular http://gordsgarage.wordpress.com/tag/engine-rebuild/), and my sense of how things work, I have it pretty much figured out.

Unfortunately I broke a ring rearranging them like the machine shop told me (square one top, number up. silver one that has the edges rounded a tad in the middle and then I had the oil ring in the right place as there is no other way to do it). So, $50 and a week later, I will be able to continue. :(

I will post pics of the assembly process with any observations as I go. I am still going to do the lower end and tranny and anything else I can as I wait. I have it dry assembled now and will finalize gasket prep and get going tomorrow night or this weekend sometime.

I have another list of parts to buy in addition to the rings - new foot peg rubber, and replacement tank emblem (one was off a different Honda bike - an S90), a new gas cap and a petcock rebuild kit. I also need spark plugs and wires, but I am not ready to figure that out yet. I am trusting all the electronics will work, so we will see where I am at with that when it is back together and go to start it!! Points look okay as does wiring, so it should run, but may need to be kick started.

Anyway, that is enough for tonight.

Dan

Post 2

So, most sandblasting is done and most parts except the frame are primed and have had first coat of paint. Unfortunately, whether it was the sprayer or the humidity, the paint laid down a little mottled. A good sanding and it is all ready for another coat.

Upon more soul searching, I've decided to do a satin black with a matte finish on the frame, fenders, wheels and many other parts, and a dull silver on the rest, retaining a few chrome items.

With the help of Nolan, my assistant working odd jobs, we assembled the seat. It looks real good. Remember I bought the cushion and leather off eBay from Taiwan and it is meant to install on the existing seat pan/frame. Nolan removed all existing leather, cushions, springs, retainers and bolts. We retained the chrome bumper trim. I got pan head bolts that will act as the brads/rivets that hold the leather in place (along with the metal tabs). Nolan carefully bent all of the tabs out and then I set to stretching the leather over the frame and tabs and then hand bending the tabs down to hold the leather. Once 360 degrees around it was looking good. I started to use an awl to locate and punch the hole where the brads were and then inserted the screws. I bought stainless steel fasteners and nuts. This is fine to install with steel, but NOT on aluminum, as the dissimilar metal will react and discolor. I wish the guy who I bought my DeLorean from years ago had known that!! For that installation get polished aluminum fasteners or chromed brass fasteners. I then set to installing the chrome detail that wraps the bottom rear of the seat leather and frame, essentially a bumper for the seat.

Tonight I picked up the engine from the engine shop. They were supposed to have blasted it, cleaned up and trued all gasket surfaces and oversized and honed the cylinders. As it turns out they only oversized the cylinders, honed and solvent washed. The cleaned up at the second oversize of 0.5mm. I had to order pistons and rings for them to have to put on the finishing hones.

The solvent washing made the engine look worse in my opinion and I am deciding what I am going to do now. Their estimate to blast it is $300 and I think that is ridiculous. I am considering dry assembling the engine and having my son carefully blast it. I don't think I can leave it looking so poorly, especially since the rest of the bike will look new. A second thought is to get very heavy mastic and cover the gasket surfaces and openings with several layers and blast them individually. I may see what material I can find to make that more of a sure plan and then decide.

A little further research indicates cleaning with aluminum wheel cleaner and brass brush may be the best way, so I will probably try that.

Sand blasting other than the engine should finish tomorrow. Priming should be done by the weekend. Painting maybe by Monday. I will look to assemble the engine this weekend.

Post 1

Hello all!

My name is Dan and I have a 1965 Honda CB160 Sport Bike with 3,000 some miles. My Grandpa gave it to me when he was moving to a smaller house, back in the early 1990's. It wasn't running then, but only the carbs needed to be rebuilt because one was missing the needle jet. Life got in the way and the bike sat around and out in the elements, though covered with a tarp, and the weather in Washington State was less than kind. The carbs now needed more than just the needle jet, and a coworker at Boeing Commercial Aircraft did me the favor of rebuilding them and wouldn't even let me pay for the parts!! Problem was that the main seal of the engine started to weep by this time, and that indicated I needed to do at least a light rebuild. Life got in the way again and though it has been heavy on my heart to do, it never happened.

Fast forward to the present and I am moving from my house of 13 years to a condo, and unless I want to pay to have the conversion done, the time to do it is now. I have the time, I have the money, and most importantly I have an eager assistant - my son Tyler is doing much of the grunt labor.

I have an idea of what I want her to look like - I have always wanted a cafe racer, so instead of simply restoring her, I am choosing to do the conversion to cafe racer. At minimum, this requires a change of the seat style and handlebar style, though to give it a more aggressive look, there is more you can do. I don't want to chop or stretch the frame as some do, and I want to try to keep it original as much as possible.

This is what she looked like back in the beginning. 

This is Franky, a conversion from Lossa Engineering. He comes the closest to the look I have decided on. Once mine is done, I will post the before and after.

In actuality, I am trying more for this look. It is a CB400 conversion by Lossa Engineering.

Mine will have features of each and will depart in areas based upon my design preferences. 

I am going to bring you up to date on where we are at and on decisions that have been made and then blog progress from here. 

Engine

Work began on March 16, 2013. I started ordering parts and my son started disassembly.

First my son pulled the engine because that is going to take time to get parts if they are needed. Unfortunately  the rings welded pretty well into the cylinders. I was surprised because of the low miles, but there is a lot I did not do correctly in storing her - my bad, definitely and I am going to pay for those decisions in this rebuild! The rest of the engine internals look like you'd expect. Nice and clean with little to no wear evident. Pictures to follow later. The piston tails are broken, which is very typical in these engines. I would love to get racing pistons, but I cannot source any, so it is OEM. The machine shop called after having the engine a couple weeks and told me the cylinders will clean up at the 2nd oversize of 0.5 mm. I have ordered the pistons and they should arrive tomorrow. And rings too, from a different source. That is all they need to finish honing and blasting.

By the way, I had been trying to avoid eBay because I hate them as a company, but many, many Honda sites claim they have parts for this, and then two days later call and cancel the order, so after dealing with that four times I went to eBay. At least with eBay sellers, the people actually do have the parts and they are new. 

I've ordered and received engine rebuild gaskets and seals in separate orders. I am trying to determine if rod bearings and cam bearings are available and if I should even bother. If this was a car engine or if parts were openly available still, I wouldn't give this any thought. I would just replace them - it is cheaper to do now instead of later.  

I asked the machine shop about valve guides and seals, and they seemed to think I did not need them. This is another thing  that is hard to source separately.  If you do need them, you need to pop on the entire valve kit at a cost of around $500, so I am awaiting the machine shop to finish to see whether I am sad or happy in this regard!  

Cables

I have elected to just replace all cables to avoid issues later. None were working well after all this time anyway, and there is the chance I could have lubed them and gotten them to function again, but they were available aftermarket, so I bought them. They took a long time to come, as does anything you buy from Thailand! 

Tires, Brakes and Wheel Bearings

The tires are very old with little to no wear, but I think they won't last long once the bike is being ridden frequently, and the look is not the cafe racer look either, so I bought new tires. This was another difficult task because matching tires, which you'd want for look and function, are hard to find that aren't meant for mopeds, which have a slower speed rating than we'd want. As it is with the tires I bought, my speed rating is like 98 MPH, which since I am not really planning to race it is fine. I bought new bearings front and back since the wheels weren't spinning as freely as you'd want. These are another thing I could have likely just lubed up and kept. Once the wheel was pulled apart the bearings looked fine, but they are the open bearing style and I decided to go with new technology bearings. Not too bad price-wise by the way. I also decided to replace the brake pads, though the existing ones looked good still. I would imagine after all this time that I could end up with some disintegration and stopping is kind of important and the pads weren't too bad price-wise. I also sourced an aftermarket chain. 

Exhaust

My pipes have dings and dents and are rusted out a little, but are still serviceable if someone wants them. Let me know. I have chosen to go with a flared pipe like the CB400 above, so I bought the main piece for both sides. I will need to rechrome the header pipes (first section). More about this below in the section on chroming. 

Air Filter

My stock air filters are looking pretty bad. They are paper and as much as I would like to keep the look of stock there, the technology will not hold up in Florida's weather. I have opted for a K&N looking filter which is available for the CB160. 

Steering and Forks

My forks started leaking as my son was working on them, so they need to be rebuilt. I could only find one of the seals that are available still, and it seems this may be all that is needed to be replaced, but I see on the parts microfiche that there is an o-ring and another seal. Once I have these apart I can tell better. I can always order an o-ring that is the right size and material even if no one is selling them as a CB160 seal, but the other seal may be the difficult one to replace if it is needed. A lot of people just upgrade the forks, but I have a low serial number version and want to keep mine, though I may chrome the lower portion. More on that in the chroming section below. 

I bought a kit to rebuild the steering bearings and seals too since the response is pretty strained. 

Manuals

First thing I bought was a Haynes manual and was unimpressed, so I bought an OEM workshop manual. I was disappointed to see it is made by Haynes and is essentially the same one as I first purchased, though the printing doesn't have the pirated look. So keep that in mind to avoid my mistake. 

Handlebars and Side Mirrors

One trademark look of the cafe racer style is Clubman handlebars, so I bought those and plan to reuse my stock grips, switches and other. Now the stock mirror look is not what I want and a lot of conversions leave off the mirrors, but the law here is that you need mirrors, so I got bar end mirrors. I wanted rectangular, but settled for round. 

Seat and Fenders

Another trademark look for a cafe racer is the seat with scooped, reduced seat pad and fairing at the rear of the seat. After doing a lot of research, I chose to do one that uses the stock seat pan/frame, has the cafe racer look, but has a little more padding than others, and is an integrated soft fairing look, just in case I want to give my kids a ride. I may reinforce the fairing area so it will still give the support needed to keep from slipping off the back in a quick takeoff. This seat came from Thailand and has a high quality look. It is leather. With this without a hard seat fairing, I will need to keep some of the rear fender at the very least and I am working on that now. 

I am going to keep some of the front fender and am still working this out. I like the CB400 look, but I am not sure I will not go with the Franky CB160 look there. I don't like the bar. 

Rear Shocks

I am planning on just cleaning these up and reusing as is, though many others go with the exposed spring type for the look, I like the stock enclosed look.

Gas Tank

My son disassembled and sand blasted the tank and it is pretty bad, like swiss cheese. I bought a POR-15 tank liner kit. At this point I am going to patch, bondo and line the tank It is undented otherwise. The swiss cheese problem won't impact the ability to hold gas with the liquid liner installed, so I might as well. I can always replace it later with one from Thailand. I plan on cleaning the chrome panels and reusing as is. 

Frame and Paint

The frame was in real good shape, but since we were sandblasting anyway, we went ahead and sandblasted that too.  It, along with all other parts to be painted are being primed now. I am using a marine primer and paint that is a little more durable. It is also cheaper than auto paint at Advanced Auto Parts or the local Autobody Paint Shop, which surprised me. I am getting it though Lowes. Colors are limited, but gloss black is my color and they have it. I am keeping my stock kickstand by the way. Others uninstall it. 

Everything Else

I will replace all other hoses, but plan to reuse the wiring and electronics if they work. I will address that as I get to it. The headlight, housing and speedometer work, but chrome needs same attention as chrome on gas tank panels. 

Chrome and Polish

I got a shock yesterday. My son took the parts to the local Chromer to get an estimate for chroming all or chrome steel and polish aluminum. The picture below shows what I decided to chrome or polish.

I didn't want much chromed. Just the lower engine covers, the sprocket and a few other very small pieces. See picture above. The estimate was ~$900 to chrome all and $613 to polish the aluminum pieces and chrome the steel. Youch!

I was already hinging between chroming these and painting them the Honda grey, like I will the engine, so I have decided to just rechrome the header pipes and go from the stock Honda grey on the rest. And I have decided to go Honda grey on the forks from the joint down to replicate the look of the rear shock. 

Update: The cost to buy header pipes delivered from Thailand is cheaper than the cost to rechrome, so I ordered them today. They are going to be pushing project completion, so I picked expedited shipping. The end of April 2013 is when I need to be finished in a perfect world.